Navigating Grief with HeartLight Center:

Insights from Our Executive Director on Colorado Public Radio

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 Executive Director, Jenn Flaum, recently joined Chandra Thomas Whitfield on Colorado Public Radio’s “Colorado Matters” to delve into the topic of grief and the crucial role of grief support.

In this interview, Jenn offers her expertise on how grief impacts every facet of our human experience – physically, mentally, emotionally, socially, behaviorally, and spiritually. The conversation explores the common misconception that talking about loss makes people sad, when in fact, “we don’t make people sad. People are already sad. So, bringing up a loss and inviting people to share can be really, really helpful.”

This interview, part of CPR’s “Aging Matters” series, touches on how grief manifests differently for everyone, the physical and mental health impacts of grief, and the importance of seeking support. Jenn shares personal anecdotes that shaped her dedication to this work and offers advice for those currently navigating their own grief journeys. We invite you to read the full transcript below to gain valuable insights into processing loss, finding supportive communities, and ultimately, moving towards a place of gratitude and healing.

“Chandra Thomas Whitfield (Colorado Public Radio, Aging Matters): Loss, and more specifically grief, become more prevalent as we age. But it’s not always about death, and the effect is often wide-ranging.

Jenn Flaum (Executive Director, HeartLight Center): Grief can impact really all of our human experience, including physical, mental, emotional, social and behavioral, spirituality, our religious beliefs.

Chandra: Today, we explore grief and how to cope with it in Aging Matters on Colorado Matters.

Jenn: We don’t make people sad. People already are sad. So, bringing up a loss and inviting people to share can be really, really helpful and it can be really meaningful.

Chandra: This is Colorado MATTERS from CPR News and KRCC. I’m Chandra Thomas Woodfield. It’s an experience that’s universal, something all people on the planet will likely live through loss. And with loss comes grief. Grief doesn’t discriminate. It comes for you at any age. But the longer you live, the more likely you will find yourself facing this powerful emotion. Today is part of our series Aging Matters, covering Colorado’s ever growing 65 plus population. We’re talking about grief and some ways to navigate it. My guest is Jenn Flaum, executive director of the HeartLight Center, a nonprofit here in Colorado that offers support groups and grief education. Jenn, welcome.

Jenn: Thank you.

Chandra: I want to start with the straightforward question. In your own words, what is grief?

Jenn: I think you summed it up pretty well. Grief really is a universal experience. It’s the reaction that we have after we’ve experienced a loss or a transition in our lives.

Chandra: And loss is not just death.

Jenn: No. And that’s one of the things that we can really draw upon. Throughout our lives when we’ve had any transition, that transition can involve and usually does involve some form of loss, even if it’s a positive transition. For example, something that a lot of us have experienced is changing jobs, and maybe we’re moving towards a job that we really want, but we’re losing still what we know, our routines, the people that we’ve worked. Another transition is where we live. Maybe we’ve just bought a dream home or a new place to live and it’s a positive thing, but we’re still losing or leaving behind other things.

 Chandra: Grief is such a difficult emotion that a lot of people avoid even talking about. What drew you to this work?

Jenn: For me, that question is not what drew me, but what didn’t. Grief and death was just always something that was a part of my life. Growing up, my grandfather, was a minister. My parents were really open with us, as kids, that death was a part of life and so it wasn’t this separate thing that you would tap into or avoid. It was just part of our day-to-day. We had pets and were involved when they died. When one of my great aunts died, I remember taking a trip with my dad and grandfather. We drove back to Indiana from Colorado to take her cremated remains back to Indiana. That trip was something that was really life giving to me in the midst of losing somebody. The most profound experience I had, as a child, was when I lost my babysitter. He was 16 and died by suicide. I was so intimately involved in everything around that. I went to the service; I planted Memory Gardens in memory of him. I was able to share with my class what had happened. So, my experience as a child was really the grief and death and loss are a part of our lives. l never looked at it as something I wouldn’t do. It just seemed very natural to me.

Chandra: Well, it sounds like it was very transformative for you to have that experience.

Jenn: It was, and I’ve learned to not be surprised that my experience as a child was different or not as routine as a lot of kids in our culture. It’s a common question for parents to ask. What should I talk to my child about? Should I include them in the funeral and memorial service? And so, demystifying that for parents around how we involve kids in loss, funerals and grief can transform the way and bring meaning, at early ages, so that it’s more comfortable, or normal as adults, to be able to build those coping mechanisms when we’re younger.

 Chandra: And of course, we’re talking about this for aging matters, looking at how this impacts the older population, but also those who care for them.

Jenn: Yes, absolutely.

Chandra: So, we often hear that everyone grieves differently. How do you interpret that?

Jenn: I like to bring that back to everyone lives differently, everyone loves differently. Those are things that we all can relate to. We all have relationships with people and we all experience love with those people differently. How we grieve is very comparable. How we express our grief, how we feel our grief is just as different as our relationship with that person and that time in our life. So, there are commonalities to grief, just as there are commonalities in love, but there are very unique differences in how those manifest for each person.

Chandra: Can grief impact someone’s physical health?

Jenn: Yes, grief can impact really all of our human experience, so physical, mental, emotional, social and behavioral and even our spirituality and religious beliefs. We often advise that when we’ve experienced a loss, not to dismiss any physical sensations or changes that we’re experiencing, but to include our healthcare providers and let them know that we’ve experienced this loss because it can complicate what’s happening in our bodies.

Chandra: What about the impact on mental health?

Jenn: It’s a great question and there is a lot of conversation in regard to grief and mental health right now with the addition of prolonged grief disorder into the DSM.

Chandra: Which is?

Jenn: The Diagnostic Statistic Manual, which is what therapists and counselors use to diagnose people with mental health and form treatment plans. There’s a new diagnosis of prolonged grief disorder. And I think both can be true. Grief in isolation is a natural experience and part of the human lived experience. If somebody has mental health happening in their life or different complications, then grief can exacerbate that. If we are already having feelings or a diagnosis of depression or anxiety and then have a loss and are grieving, it can make those things more difficult. Also, if we ignore our grief, then that can translate into other mental health complications. That’s were having conversations and including grace and interest and how we process our loss can be so important to prevent more impactful mental health complications.

Chandra: What would you look for in terms of symptoms of how this is impacting someone’s mental health?

Jenn: When we experience a loss and are grieving, especially if it’s a loss that was really close to us, initially, we go through a phase, we call acute grief. Typically, that phase lasts about one to three months where we are experiencing shock. Physically our sleeping and eating can be impacted. Those types of patterns can be disrupted and so those things are normal. What we want to make sure of is that people are adjusting and integrating the loss into the day-to-day life. At first, we aren’t probably going to be able to go through our normal routine, but overtime we want to be able to start to build in coping mechanisms to move through and transition into a more routine lifestyle. Not to say we won’t still have feelings and expressions of grief, or difficult days, but when grief starts to impact our day-to-day living long after three to six months we should seek additional help. If we’re seeing negative impacts, so significant weight loss, significant sleep disturbances that aren’t resolving with time and intention, or probably most apparent, if somebody is having destructive behaviors, that’s when we would really want to integrate more mental health treatment with a therapist, counselor or a team.

 Chandra: And of course, as you mentioned, it takes a while to adjust to this new normal, especially if this person or even a pet was a part of your day-to-day life. Now you have to kind of figure out how does my day go? How do I start my day?

Jenn: Absolutely. Especially as we age, it’s very common to lose our spouse. When we’ve lost a spouse, our entire world is totally different, sometimes overnight, even for a loss that’s anticipated. If we’re caring for somebody, they have an illness, and our brains know and are anticipating we are going to outlive our partner. Even at that time when that loss occurs, it still is something that you can’t prepare for it. One day you have your person and the next day you wake up and they’re not here physically anymore. Everything can change, overnight. Our routines, how we eat, who we prepare meals for, if we’ve been a caregiver for an extended period, all of a sudden we don’t have that person to care for anymore. And then we can question our identity.  Who am I without this person? Our social circles can change. If you’ve been used to going to dinner as couples, all of a sudden, it’s just you. Those are just three things that change in some ways overnight. To expect that we bounce back and don’t have to navigate that over a period of time, we set ourselves up to feel like we’re doing something wrong. It’s about providing ourselves with grace to say, “my whole world just changed. I’m missing the person that was closest to me, and now I have to figure out how to meet my basic needs. Mow the lawn, who’s going to blow out the sprinklers?”  Consider all of the things that in partnership we do with one another. “Who am I? What’s my meaning and purpose now that I’ve experienced this loss?” And that takes time. And it can be something that maybe doesn’t have a resolution, but it’s integrating that process into our human experience.

Chandra: Yeah, it’s really interesting because grief is it comes in these waves, and it seems like just when you think, oh, I have finally gotten this together and then you turn the corner and see… I don’t know, a mug and I next thing you know, you’re bawling. You’re like, what? You know, so it’s, it’s, it just seems like it’s always the thing you don’t expect. Go to the random moment and it kind of catches you off guard.

Jenn: Absolutely. I call those “crying at the spaghetti in the grocery store moments” where you’re just going to the store and then all of a sudden you burst into tears. So often we hear people say, “I wish this didn’t happen” or “this grief burst was so surprising”. We have to offer ourselves compassion and grace when those things do, feeling those emotions, experiencing those memories is so important because it is so normal. And then moving through.

Chandra: So, your nonprofit (HeartLight Center) helps people work through their grief. So, let’s speak to people who are grieving right now. What are some steps they can take to better equip themselves?

Jenn: Think the first thing that I would like to tell anybody who’s grieving right now is whatever is happening, honor that for yourself. This isn’t something that we fix. We don’t feel better overnight, and that’s OK, but we can move through and find joy and meaning again. When we’re in deep emotional pain, it can feel like we will never feel hungry again. We will never sleep well again. We will never want to go out of the house again or laugh. And those feelings can return, and they will. Some of what needs to happen is it’s a combination of time and intention. So, in terms of steps, l’d like to start with: make sure that your basic needs are met. Are you drinking enough water? Are you eating? Find small snacks throughout the day. Make that an easy thing to do because that can be difficult to do. We have to take care of our physical bodies. Sleep can be difficult for people, so I invite people to, even if you can’t fall asleep, allow your body a chance just to rest, closing your eyes and bringing comfort and warmth into your space.Making sure our basic needs are met and then asking ourselves the question, what would feel good to me right now in this moment? Instrumental grievers like to do things and process grief more cognitively, in our heads, we’re thinking about it. Others of us are more intuitive grievers. We’re feeling through what is happening and so need more space to be with our emotions, whether that be through journaling or more expressive with family and friends. Typically, intuitive grievers are more externally expressed with their feelings and emotions. So, figuring out for you what makes me feel good? It’s OK to be a doer and need to then paint the house and do the tasks and run the errands. It’s also OK to be the feeler and think in journal and process and pray or lean into a deeper meaning. And then a combination thereof is probably the healthiest where we are able to balance. I need a task and to get out of the house today I am going to encourage myself to take a walk.

 Chandra: As you said today, tomorrow you may need to sit with those emotions.

Jenn: 100% and try not to be surprised when that shifts because every day, sometimes every moment, it’s this constant check in the other pieces, leaning on supportive people, identifying who in your world you can lean on and for what. Not every person or relationship, when we’re grieving, is going to be helpful. It’s important we recognize that we can’t expect what people can’t give. And so, finding the people who you can reach out to for logistical help. “Hey, I need you to bring me dinner tonight”. “Hey, I need you to help me clean this portion of the house”. And then also finding the people that we can lean on for emotional support, “I just want to talk tonight” “I want to remember who l’ve lost”. Finding those support systems can be really, really helpful.

 Chandra: Jenn Flaum is the Executive Director of the HeartLight Center, a nonprofit here in Colorado that offers grief support groups and education. When we come back, what to do when the grief starts to feel isolating and the concept of turning grief into gratitude. This is Colorado Matters from CPR News and KRCC. Today, we’re talking about grief and the many different and sometimes unexpected ways it shows up in our lives. And it’s not exclusively related to death. It’s part of our series Aging Matters, which centers on issues related to Colorado’s fastest growing population, those aged 65 and up. My guest is Jenn Flaum, the Executive Director of the HeartLight Center, a nonprofit here in Colorado that offers support groups and grief education. Let’s get back to our conversation. Of course, we mentioned at the top, this is a universal experience. It doesn’t discriminate in terms of age and background. But since we’re talking specifically about older adults, it’s a period of a lot of loss. I mean, so losing your partner is one part of it, for example, but you may have lost your mobility, you’ve lost your independence. So it may feel like overwhelming because it’s this huge season of losing so much. And it’s different, you know, maybe if you’re 25, you say, oh, I’m going to travel the world. But maybe if you are older, you may not feel comfortable doing that, especially alone or if you don’t have someone that can go with you. So how does how do you deal with this specifically when you’re dealing with so much loss at one time?

Jenn: I heard this great story recently and it was about somebody who was traveling, and he got to a new town. And the story is, is that he asked the waiter, “What are the people like here?” And the waiter replied, “What are you looking for?” That story really resonates because as we age, or at different times of our lives, all of the loss we experience can feel compounding. That’s where the intention has to come into place where we get to ask ourselves, “Where am I focusing?” That’s not to minimize the loss, or what’s happening in our world, but when we intentionally focus also on what we have, it can help balance what we have lost. As we experience a time in our lives where it seems like compounding, had to move homes, we’re losing our mobility, we’re worried about our health, perhaps we experienced a few losses of family and friends. We must shift that focus a little bit to balance that out with what we also have. We will find what we’re looking for. And if we decide to focus on turning our grief into gratitude, in time and when we’re ready, that can be very helpful.

 Chandra: Wow. Well, we know that a lot of social isolation and loneliness can evolve out of all of this. So, when is the right time to turn to a grief counselor or a support group, and how do you know which to choose?

Jenn: That’s a great question. First of all, the time is right when the time is right for you. Depending on the relationship, our current coping mechanisms or our social support circle and our religious community might feel like they have the support through without going to a, a therapist or counselor or an external grief support group. Other times, if we are feeling isolated, it can be really fulfilling to find others who have had that same shared experience. And so, coming to a grief support group, being in community with people who might feel like complete strangers when you walk in the door, but share one of the most intimate and vulnerable experiences that humans can share. All of a sudden you look across the room and you feel so connected with people just by nature of having this shared human experience. If you’re feeling in isolation or if saying to yourself, “nobody else knows what I’m going through”, that’s were coming into a grief support group or forming a grief support group in our local communities can be exceptionally powerful. It doesn’t have to be as isolating as it might feel in terms of looking to professional therapists or counselors. I recommend that when people are having difficulty coping with their day-to-day or it’s disrupting their day-to-day. The other time that a therapist or counselor individually can be really helpful is if somebody is experiencing recurring thoughts or dramatic events around that death. It can be really helpful to process if there was any trauma involved with a professional counselor or therapist. And then often times people find it’s helpful to have both our natural support system and community, maybe a support group in combination with a therapist or counselor and then invite people to move in and out of those things at different points in time. There’s not a checklist that says you will feel better if you have a therapist and counselor, go to a grief support group and process your loss in 365 days. It’s a transition and it’s a process. Maybe you go to therapy and counseling for a period of time and then take a break and maybe something comes up and you want to revisit that. So, moving through and integrating those support systems at various points in time is important.

Chandra: Jen, what about family members? How can others help a family member or friend who is grieving?

Jenn: One of the best ways that we can help is first of all, identifying how we are most helpful. I will share with you; I am not the doer. If you ask me to cook dinner, you’re going to be waiting a long time.

Chandra: Like Uber Eats, which one do you want?

Jenn: I know l’m not the meal train friend, but I know that I am the friend that you can call it 2:00 in the morning and I will be with you and in it during that deep emotional pain. I am the intuitive person. So, when we’re thinking about “how can I be most helpful?” First, think about what are you best at? You don’t have to become comfortable with tears and being with a friend who’s in deep grief overnight, but you can help in a way that’s comfortable for you. So, setting up the meal train, providing direction. If somebody’s needing help with those logistics, extending that offer, “can I help with the ride?”, “Can I help mow the lawn?”, “I’m going to the grocery store, what can I bring for you?” If you are more of the feeler person, setting up time and space, sending the message like “just thinking about you today, would you like to go for a walk and talk about the person that you’ve lost?”. Using the person’s name who died can be exceptionally powerful. We don’t make people sad. People already are sad. Bringing up a loss and inviting people to share can be really, really helpful and really meaningful. It can be lost when people say let me know if there’s anything I can do to help because often times we don’t know what help we need.

Chandra: I’ve heard that one, yes. Like, so it’s on me in the midst of my grief, to give out a time and to figure out what [you can do for me].

Jenn: The other thing I would invite people to explore is we’re supporting ourselves and other people around us who are grieving is compassionate curiosity. Entering space without judgement and with compassion and curiosity. “What really is your experience?” “How are you doing?” and then being ready to hear the answer.

Chandra: And, and that’s a huge part of it because what I’m learning and, you know, l’ve seen a lot of situations around me, people don’t know what to say. And then also I noticed a lot of people are scared. Do you bring up the lost person, you know, the person that you’ve lost, or do you act like that’s too traumatic to bring up? I don’t know that there’s an answer, but that’s a huge part of this.

Jenn: It is a huge part of it, and that’s where there isn’t a script. Whatever we say, if we say it with authenticity and it comes from a place of compassion and care, generally speaking, even if we say the wrong thing, we’re going to be able to work through that.

 Chandra: Well, death and even a move are pretty obvious examples of loss and most people can understand those. But a lot of this also involves those around the older person in terms of grieving the mother. They had the mother that used to do this. I follow a lot of groups for older adults and this person posted that, you know, there was a baby being born in the family and there was this big party going on shower and his mother has dementia and she doesn’t really process what’s happening. He’s like, this would have been the grandmother, you know, knitting stuff and crocheting and decorating and, and he was kind of mourning that she’s not participating and she doesn’t really understand what’s going on.

Jenn: And those can be losses in a type of grief that we don’t talk about Her record not so obviously recognized. It’s the loss before the loss. So entertaining the idea that no, this is grief and grief starts now. There’s also anticipatory grief. What is to come like with a diagnosis that may or may not be something that we can cure. We’re anticipating these losses happening or we’re living through them. And I appreciate that question. And just naming that to say no grief is a part of that as well.

Chandra: As we wrap up, people who are grieving often feel like every day lasts forever. Do you have any words of hope for them?

Jenn: With time and intention, we can turn our grief into gratitude. Give yourself grace. We can have compassionate curiosity towards ourselves. The darkness and wilderness can feel so overcoming and overwhelming. But there are people out there, there are places out there, where you are welcomed, you are loved, you are accepted just exactly as you are. And as cliche as it might sound, there will be light again in the midst of the darkness.

Chandra: Jenn, thanks for sharing your insights with us.

Jenn: Thank you for having me today.

 Chandra: Jenn Flaum is the Executive Director of the HeartLight Center, a nonprofit here in Colorado that offers support groups and grief education. And we should note that along with the HeartLight Center, there are plenty of support group options here in Colorado, in person and virtual, to help navigate the grieving process. For example, the website griefshare.org provides a listing of support groups here in Colorado and nationwide. Denver Hospice, Boulder Hospice, UC Health and Judi’s House, which families, all offer grief and bereavement support groups, and there’s even a place called the Center for Lost in Life Transition in Fort Collins. We’ll put links to those organizations on our resource page at cpr.org/agingmatters. ”